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Avaya J179

  • 1.  Avaya J179

    Posted 06-05-2018 09:51 AM

    I'm trying to setup one of these in my lab and I'm admittingly not super familiar with SIP devices yet.  I have a few 9611G's running SIP but not many.  Hopefully these aren't stupid questions :)

    I have SIP version 2.0 loaded on the J179 but cannot access the webui - just get page cannot be found.  

    I also can't figure out how to get feature buttons to display on the phone.  

    Can anyone help me?



  • 2.  RE: Avaya J179

    Posted 06-06-2018 10:29 AM

    So I found the buttons under the features menu, and found that you can add them as favorites on the phone itself to get them to show on the home screen, but is there an easier way?  How are you supposed to do this to thousands of endpoints?



  • 3.  Avaya J179

    COMMITTEE MEMBER
    Posted 06-06-2018 10:54 AM
    You can actually program all the “favorites” in SMGR. You can do this via a template, or scripting via the API. As long as the station is programmed as a “SIP” phone, you should see the options to do this.

    -Nick

    From: Travis Hill <iaug-teud@lists.iaug.org>
    Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 2:29 PM
    To: iaug-teud@lists.iaug.org
    Subject: [IAUG Forums] - RE: Avaya J179


    So I found the buttons under features, and found that you can add them as favorites on the phone itself to get them to show on the home screen, but is there an easier way? How are you supposed to do this to thousands of endpoints?

    -----End Original Message-----


  • 4.  RE: Avaya J179

    Posted 06-06-2018 12:32 PM

    I see the favorites and temlates in SMGR but they don't seem to work right.  I duplicated the 9611GSIP template and added audix-rec, send-calls and busy-ind buttons and then checked them as favorites and saved it with a new name and then assigned it to the station.  The home screen looked the same and when I hit the features menu there were no buttons there.  I went to User Registrations in SM and tried reloading config and even restarting the station but still no dice.  Finally I went into Endpoint Editor and then hit Commit & Continue and now the buttons are in the features menu but still aren't favorites.  What am I missing?



  • 5.  Avaya J179

    COMMITTEE MEMBER
    Posted 06-06-2018 01:01 PM
    Are you confident that PPM is making it to the phone? In SMGR 7.x, if you make a change to a button, the change gets written to the local postgres database, then eventually replicates to Session Manager, and then pushed out to the phone. That can take 5 minutes, depending on your configuration.

    If PPM is not working correctly, those changes will not be pushed out to the phone.

    -Nick

    From: Travis Hill <iaug-teud@lists.iaug.org>
    Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2018 4:32 PM
    To: iaug-teud@lists.iaug.org
    Subject: [IAUG Forums] - RE: Avaya J179


    I see the favorites and temlates in SMGR but they don't seem to work right. I duplicated the 9611GSIP template and added audix-rec, send-calls and busy-ind buttons and then checked them as favorites and saved it with a new name and then assigned it to the station. The home screen looked the same and when I hit the features menu there were no buttons there. I went to User Registrations in SM and tried reloading config and even restarting the station but still no dice. Finally I went into Endpoint Editor and then hit Commit & Continue and now the buttons are in the features menu but still aren't favorites. What am I missing?

    -----End Original Message-----


  • 6.  RE: Avaya J179

    Posted 06-06-2018 01:10 PM

    Nick & Travis,

    I'll be lurking in the background to see how this gets figured out. I'm knee deep in the same boat (kinda).
    Working 9608 / h.323 & e-129 sip phones. Trying to get the 9608 to work as SIP and the new J-129s. With no success on either.

    The 9608 registers - but obviously no PPM (same button issue) and the new j-129 just laughs at me, doesnt even try. I've exhausted the 46xx file links posted, still with no success. I'm pretty sure it's a certificate issue.

     

    So I'll just watch and learn !  -hahaha



  • 7.  Avaya J179

    COMMITTEE MEMBER
    Posted 06-06-2018 01:30 PM
    Lots of questions on this one to even get you in the right direction…. But if you have access to the recordings from last year’s IAUG (2017), John Waber from ArrowSI / ConvergeOne did an excellent presentation on PPM, how it works, and how to fix it when it’s not working.

    A few things to get you started :

    * PPM only happens when a phone is connected via TLS. It won’t even try if it is connected via TCP/UDP
    * PPM will connect over HTTPS. Again, you need to trust certs on the phone via the 46xxsettings.txt file. You can kinda get it to work over http, but it won’t work right or well.
    * Modern firmware will reject the default certs. Don’t even bother with them.
    * If you connect the phones directly to the ASM, use the TraceSM command line tool. It will show you attempts for PPM and what the responses are.
    * If you connect the phones via an SBC, use the TraceSBC command line tool. This will show you the attempts and routes for PPM.

    Make sure you are connecting to your servers over the fqdn (hostname) rather than the IP. Also, make sure the fqdn you are using on your settings files match the internal hostname of the server, and not something you made up.

    -Nick

    From: John Montoya <iaug-teud@lists.iaug.org>
    Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2018 5:10 PM
    To: iaug-teud@lists.iaug.org
    Subject: [IAUG Forums] - RE: Avaya J179


    Nick & Travis,

    I'll be lurking in the background to see how this gets figured out. I'm knee deep in the same boat (kinda).
    Working 9608 / h.323 & e-129 sip phones. Trying to get the 9608 to work as SIP and the new J-129s. With no success on either.

    The 9608 registers - but obviously no PPM (same button issue) and the new j-129 just laughs at me, doesnt even try. I've exhausted the 46xx file links posted, still with no success. I'm pretty sure it's a certificate issue.



    So I'll just watch and learn ! -hahaha

    -----End Original Message-----


  • 8.  Avaya J179

    Posted 06-06-2018 02:00 PM
    Nick

    Brilliant contribution from you as always. This is an email I’m going to print off and put in my back pocket for that inevitable moment ppm doesn’t work for me.

    Thank you.

    On 6 Jun 2018, at 22:30, Kwiatkowski, Nicholas <iaug-teud@lists.iaug.org> wrote:

    Lots of questions on this one to even get you in the right direction…. But if you have access to the recordings from last year’s IAUG (2017), John Waber from ArrowSI / ConvergeOne did an excellent presentation on PPM, how it works, and how to fix it when it’s not working.

    A few things to get you started :
    PPM only happens when a phone is connected via TLS. It won’t even try if it is connected via TCP/UDP
    PPM will connect over HTTPS. Again, you need to trust certs on the phone via the 46xxsettings.txt file. You can kinda get it to work over http, but it won’t work right or well.
    Modern firmware will reject the default certs. Don’t even bother with them.
    If you connect the phones directly to the ASM, use the TraceSM command line tool. It will show you attempts for PPM and what the responses are.
    If you connect the phones via an SBC, use the TraceSBC command line tool. This will show you the attempts and routes for PPM.

    Make sure you are connecting to your servers over the fqdn (hostname) rather than the IP. Also, make sure the fqdn you are using on your settings files match the internal hostname of the server, and not something you made up.

    -Nick

    From: John Montoya <iaug-teud@lists.iaug.org>
    Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2018 5:10 PM
    To: iaug-teud@lists.iaug.org
    Subject: [IAUG Forums] - RE: Avaya J179

    Nick & Travis,

    I'll be lurking in the background to see how this gets figured out. I'm knee deep in the same boat (kinda).
    Working 9608 / h.323 & e-129 sip phones. Trying to get the 9608 to work as SIP and the new J-129s. With no success on either.

    The 9608 registers - but obviously no PPM (same button issue) and the new j-129 just laughs at me, doesnt even try. I've exhausted the 46xx file links posted, still with no success. I'm pretty sure it's a certificate issue.



    So I'll just watch and learn ! -hahaha


    -----End Original Message-----

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  • 9.  Avaya J179

    COMMITTEE MEMBER
    Posted 06-06-2018 02:09 PM
    Do get a hold of the video from John if you can. It’s a 60 minute session and will help out if your environment is anything but textbook. He is the master of that stuff ����

    Also, this is a bit sales-ey, but the $300 or so for the videos at the conference is an invaluable resource. There is soo much great content there – I go back them constantly to bush up on things from the experts ����

    -Nick

    From: Daniel Jones <iaug-teud@lists.iaug.org>
    Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2018 6:00 PM
    To: iaug-teud@lists.iaug.org
    Subject: [IAUG Forums] - RE: Avaya J179

    Nick

    Brilliant contribution from you as always. This is an email I’m going to print off and put in my back pocket for that inevitable moment ppm doesn’t work for me.

    Thank you.

    On 6 Jun 2018, at 22:30, Kwiatkowski, Nicholas <iaug-teud@lists.iaug.org<mailto:iaug-teud@lists.iaug.org>> wrote:
    Lots of questions on this one to even get you in the right direction…. But if you have access to the recordings from last year’s IAUG (2017), John Waber from ArrowSI / ConvergeOne did an excellent presentation on PPM, how it works, and how to fix it when it’s not working.

    A few things to get you started :

    * PPM only happens when a phone is connected via TLS. It won’t even try if it is connected via TCP/UDP
    * PPM will connect over HTTPS. Again, you need to trust certs on the phone via the 46xxsettings.txt file. You can kinda get it to work over http, but it won’t work right or well.
    * Modern firmware will reject the default certs. Don’t even bother with them.
    * If you connect the phones directly to the ASM, use the TraceSM command line tool. It will show you attempts for PPM and what the responses are.
    * If you connect the phones via an SBC, use the TraceSBC command line tool. This will show you the attempts and routes for PPM.

    Make sure you are connecting to your servers over the fqdn (hostname) rather than the IP. Also, make sure the fqdn you are using on your settings files match the internal hostname of the server, and not something you made up.

    -Nick

    From: John Montoya <iaug-teud@lists.iaug.org<mailto:iaug-teud@lists.iaug.org>>
    Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2018 5:10 PM
    To: iaug-teud@lists.iaug.org<mailto:iaug-teud@lists.iaug.org>
    Subject: [IAUG Forums] - RE: Avaya J179


    Nick & Travis,

    I'll be lurking in the background to see how this gets figured out. I'm knee deep in the same boat (kinda).
    Working 9608 / h.323 & e-129 sip phones. Trying to get the 9608 to work as SIP and the new J-129s. With no success on either.

    The 9608 registers - but obviously no PPM (same button issue) and the new j-129 just laughs at me, doesnt even try. I've exhausted the 46xx file links posted, still with no success. I'm pretty sure it's a certificate issue.



    So I'll just watch and learn ! -hahaha

    -----End Original Message-----

    -----End Original Message-----

    -----End Original Message-----


  • 10.  RE: Avaya J179

    Posted 06-06-2018 03:52 PM

    Nick -

    Excellent advise, and a great jumping off point to start with.

    -thank you for you help.



  • 11.  RE: Avaya J179

    Posted 06-07-2018 04:24 AM

    For me, I am on Aura 7 and I am getting PPM.  Session Manager shows it is an AST device and I do see the buttons.  Maybe I'm not being patient enough for the changes.

    I did have a lot of pain getting the phones to register and work initially due to the certificates and not having the "SET MEDIAENCRYPTION 9" in the setitngs file, but have gotten past all that now.  



  • 12.  RE: Avaya J179

    Posted 06-07-2018 05:10 AM

    Just to try something, I plugged in a J169 and for whatever reason it didn't upgrade to the 2.0 firmware.  I logged in with the same station I was using for the J179 and it is showing all of the feature buttons on the home screen and looks like I'd expect lol. 



  • 13.  RE: Avaya J179

    Posted 06-07-2018 06:48 AM

    I downgraded my J179 to 1.5 and now it looks perfect.  There must be issues with 2.0 or I'm missing something or doing something wrong.  Will keep looking..,.



  • 14.  RE: Avaya J179

    Posted 06-07-2018 10:18 AM

    Travis, one difference is that they've deprecated support for busy indicators in 2.0 firmware.  I posted a solution document number in another thread.

    Tom Lynn

    Principal Engineer

    Nordstrom, Inc,

    tom.lynn@nordstrom.com 



  • 15.  RE: Avaya J179 (PPM Failure)

    Posted 06-07-2018 05:23 AM

    Nick,

    Thanks for the endorsement on my IAUG presentation from a couple years ago!

    Folks,

    For that presentation, I researched every posting I could find on the Internet regarding PPM, looking for issues and insights.  I organized them and described them.

    • The most common reason for PPM failures was not administering the Private-Numbering table in CM.

    Nick adds some great insights that if I were to do the presentation again I would be sure to include.

    If you cannot access the IAUG recording, I’ll send you a PDF version of the presentation.  Simply email me at jwaber@convergeone.com

    John Waber, Sr Technical Instructor, ConvergeOne CoE Learning



  • 16.  RE: Avaya J179 (PPM Failure)

    Posted 06-08-2018 08:14 AM

    ok - maybe I like SIP, just a little bit now.

    I now have both the 9608 & j-179 registered and moving PPM traffic.
    Your slides from the PPM presentation were invaluable. For some reason, we are using TCP instead of TLS, so I added the lines for tcp and it's working now.

    Thank you to everyone for your time & help,

    john-



  • 17.  Avaya J179 (PPM Failure)

    Posted 06-08-2018 08:45 AM
    Hi John,
    What's the benefits of using j179 over 96xx, we are also planning to test
    them to start with.

    On Fri, 8 Jun 2018, 20:14 John Montoya, <iaug-teud@lists.iaug.org> wrote:

    > ok - maybe I like SIP, just a little bit now.
    >
    > I now have both the 9608 & j-179 registered and moving PPM traffic.
    > Your slides from the PPM presentation were invaluable. For some reason, we
    > are using TCP instead of TLS, so I added the lines for tcp and it's working
    > now.
    >
    > Thank you to everyone for your time & help,
    >
    > john-
    >
    > -----End Original Message-----
    >


  • 18.  RE: Avaya J179 (PPM Failure)

    Posted 06-08-2018 09:21 AM
      |   view attached

    Arslan,

     

    I mis-spoke, J-129 phones are working, not the 179s.
    But, I've been told the 9608s are getting  to end of life... and the J series is the replacement.

    I do have a couple of the different J series phones on order and on their way in. We are getting ready to start moving our enterprise off of our Definity (6400 series digtal sets) - to Aura 7. So I need to test them out too. Our rep said that basically the same phones, but you will be able to purchase power bricks for each telephone and there are wireless moduals available for a couple modules too.

    I've attached a good comparison sheet about the series.

    thanks,

    -john 

    Attachment(s)

    pdf
    J-Series-Phones.pdf   994 KB 1 version


  • 19.  Avaya J179 (PPM Failure)

    COMMITTEE MEMBER
    Posted 06-08-2018 11:28 AM
    The J-series phones are the brand-new ones, and eventually will replace the 96x1 phones. Both will probably be available for at least a year (most likely 2), but you can expect less R&D to be put into the 96x1 phones, similar to what we’ve seen with 96x0 and 4600 series phones.

    -Nick

    From: Arslan Ali Zaidi [mailto:iaug-teud@lists.iaug.org]
    Sent: Friday, June 8, 2018 12:45 PM
    To: iaug-teud@lists.iaug.org
    Subject: [IAUG Forums] - RE: Avaya J179 (PPM Failure)

    Hi John,
    What's the benefits of using j179 over 96xx, we are also planning to test them to start with.

    On Fri, 8 Jun 2018, 20:14 John Montoya, <iaug-teud@lists.iaug.org<mailto:iaug-teud@lists.iaug.org>> wrote:

    ok - maybe I like SIP, just a little bit now.

    I now have both the 9608 & j-179 registered and moving PPM traffic.
    Your slides from the PPM presentation were invaluable. For some reason, we are using TCP instead of TLS, so I added the lines for tcp and it's working now.

    Thank you to everyone for your time & help,

    john-

    -----End Original Message-----


  • 20.  RE: Avaya J179

    Posted 06-20-2018 12:27 PM

    Still haven't gotten any further.  I can take a template that has favorite buttons and they show up on the home screen on 9611GSIP and J179 1.5.  If I try it on J179 2.0 the favorites will not appear.  It's not a PPM issue because the buttons are under the feature menu, they just won't show on the home screen unless I add them manually on the phone which just isn't a feasible option.  



  • 21.  RE: Avaya J179

    Posted 06-21-2018 12:28 PM

    I have it working wirelessly, internally and externally through the SBC.  Seems to work quite well actually.



  • 22.  RE: Avaya J179 - and J169

    Posted 06-29-2018 10:08 AM

    Travis,

    I finally have some J-169 / J-179 phones available to test out.

    I have the J-169 registered and working. But now I have questions about buttons too. Coming from H.323 phones (9608s) - can you explain the difference in the types of screens / buttons?

    Home Screen- I have 8 programable buttons for the home screen. I can only get call appearence buttons to work on this screen. What other type of buttons can I program on this screen?

    Feature List screen - I scroll over one screen and now I can see a call-park button I programed.

    System Buttons screen - I scroll over one more time and now I see busy indictors.

    -then in the user profile admin screen (in system manager) - I see Favorite Buttons, what do I do with those?

    On the 9608 - there is "PHNSCRALL" in the 46x file, that specifies whether separate screens will be displayed for call appearances and features.  Is this not possible on the new SIP phones?

     

    Otherwise - definately different that the 9608 phones, small form factor. But a cleaner looking device.

     

    Thank you for your time and help,

     

    john-



  • 23.  RE: Avaya J179 - and J169

    Posted 06-29-2018 10:43 AM
    The first thing you want to do is download and install the J100 2.0.0 software. With that version, the actual end-user will have the flexibility to program the layout however they want. Want to only show one call appearance? Sure. Want to add contacts so that you can easily see their presence? Sure. Want to show commonly used features, Sure.

    Gord Webster - Product Manager IP Deskphones - Avaya



  • 24.  RE: Avaya J179 - and J169

    Posted 06-29-2018 10:48 AM

     

    Gord,

    We too are awaiting some phones to test, but in the mean time.....I've heard rumors that the button modules are not coming out/delayed for the J169/J179. Is that accurate or what is the story with the button modules for these models? 

    Thanks!



    In Reply to Gord Webster:

    The first thing you want to do is download and install the J100 2.0.0 software. With that version, the actual end-user will have the flexibility to program the layout however they want. Want to only show one call appearance? Sure. Want to add contacts so that you can easily see their presence? Sure. Want to show commonly used features, Sure.

    Gord Webster - Product Manager IP Deskphones - Avaya



  • 25.  RE: Avaya J179 - and J169

    Posted 06-29-2018 12:12 PM

    Gord,

    This was NOT the answer I was looking for (me learning more stuff) - hahaha

    I just messed around on the phone and see the available options. Might you have a link to more detailed information about these features? I would also like to read up and see if I can restrict menu options to the end users (I see what too many things they can play with).

     

    I want us to be a pure SIP house and these phones are really looking interesting.

     

    Thank you for your response,

     

    john-



  • 26.  Frustrated with J-169

    Posted 07-05-2018 09:49 AM

    Gord,


    Maybe you can help.

    I had the J-169 working. I thought I had figured out all the button configurations - I was ready to put the phone into production (as my desk phone) - then made one 46x settings change - rebooted the phone - and it's been pain since.

    On reboot - it upgraded to version 2.0 (it was running on 1). Now with 2.0 - I can't get any button placement like I had with version 1. I even tried to push version 1 back onto the phone, apparently it wont go back to 1.0 now.

    • I can't get the soft-buttons programed
    • I have to press the down arrow 21 times to see the last three buttons configured.
    • For some reason, it's not taking button changes anymore - I add a busy indicator and its not showing up.
    • I add a auto dial - wont show up.
    • I add 3 or 4 more call appearences - they show up.

    I must be missing something - because I can't imagine this is how Avaya intends the phone to be used.

     

    Any help / suggestions would be appreciated,

    thanks,

    -john



  • 27.  RE: Frustrated with J-169

    Posted 07-09-2018 10:58 AM

    Exactly the same thing I'm experiencing and why I started this thread.  The favorites can be added manually from the phone itself, but not through SM.

     

    Latest issue is when wireless, apparently there's no MAC showing so hotlines don't work.  Works fine when wired.



  • 28.  RE: Frustrated with J-169

    Posted 07-09-2018 11:06 AM

    I just looked on Avaya's website and there's a 3.0 SIP firmware in the menu but the download isn't there.  Hopefully it's coming soon?



  • 29.  RE: Frustrated with J-169

    Posted 07-09-2018 11:19 AM
      |   view attached

    -yes, you are correct, there is no v3 on the support site to download.

    So I was playing with the phone last Thursday - made a 46x file change - decided to do a "Reset to Defaults" (for grins & giggles) - then later in the day, checked the version. It appears that I have version 3 on the phone now?

    I only have v1 and v2 on my utility server, and v2 is deactivated (was tring to get it back to v1).

    So are these endpoints phoning home to the mothership and getting firmware on its own???

     

    the fun never ends!



  • 30.  Frustrated with J-169

    COMMITTEE MEMBER
    Posted 07-09-2018 11:21 AM
    Phones don't auto-update from the Avaya support site (only exception is those that that home to the Avaya Cloud PBX). You would need to download and deploy it yourself.


    -Nick


    ________________________________
    From: John Montoya <iaug-teud@lists.iaug.org>
    Sent: Monday, July 9, 2018 3:19 PM
    To: iaug-teud@lists.iaug.org
    Subject: [IAUG Forums] - RE: Frustrated with J-169

    Note: Due to the attachment size(s), links to download the attachment(s) for this email have been provided at the bottom.

    -yes, you are correct, there is no v3 on the support site to download.

    So I was playing with the phone last Thursday - made a 46x file change - decided to do a "Reset to Defaults" (for grins & giggles) - then later in the day, checked the version. It appears that I have version 3 on the phone now?

    I only have v1 and v2 on my utility server, and v2 is deactivated (was tring to get it back to v1).

    So are these endpoints phoning home to the mothership and getting firmware on its own???



    the fun never ends!

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    ________________________________


  • 31.  RE: Frustrated with J-169

    Posted 07-09-2018 11:31 AM
      |   view attached

    Nick-

     

    I've attached a smaller version of the picture I took - 

    I also just checked the Admin View -

    SW Version = 3.0.0.0.19

    Backup SW = 2.0.0.0.45

    I only have version 1 & 2 on my utility server. There is no version 3 to download and install.
    It did run through a full software install (I thought it was finally going back to v1).

     

    Ended up with 3 - have no idea where it came from. It didn't download it from me.
    I was just kidding about the mother-ship, but... ???

     

    thanks,

    -john



  • 32.  RE: Frustrated with J-169

    Posted 07-09-2018 11:56 AM

    -and not complaining about the version issue-
    -just an observation-

    I've kinda given up on the J-series for now. I'm falling behind on regular work.
    I'll try to play with them more next week.

    -wait - the J-129 IS working properly and the version 2 software is needed on this model to program the soft buttons. So I did accomplish one goal.

     

    thanks everyone-



  • 33.  RE: Frustrated with J-169

    Posted 07-19-2018 05:11 AM



    In Reply to John Montoya:

    Nick-

     

    I've attached a smaller version of the picture I took - 

    I also just checked the Admin View -

    SW Version = 3.0.0.0.19

    Backup SW = 2.0.0.0.45

    I only have version 1 & 2 on my utility server. There is no version 3 to download and install.
    It did run through a full software install (I thought it was finally going back to v1).

     

    Ended up with 3 - have no idea where it came from. It didn't download it from me.
    I was just kidding about the mother-ship, but... ???

     

    thanks,

    -john

    I noticed today that SIP 3.0.0.0 came out on July 10, so you must have downloaded it while they were uploading the new version or something!



  • 34.  RE: Frustrated with J-169

    Posted 07-19-2018 06:42 AM

    Travis,

     

    Thank you for the update on the software, I'll download it now and install it on my utility server.

    That was the puzzling part - the update on my phone ran on the 5th or 6th (I didn't post it until the 9th), all my firmware comes from my utility server (and as of this email) I still don't have it on the utility server - only versions 1 and 2.

    Just another mystery from the great Avaya ! hahahaha-

    Appreciate the update.

    john-



  • 35.  Re: New J-Series Documentation

    Posted 07-19-2018 09:44 AM

    Travis-

     

    I just went and downloaded 3.0 - I also found five new documents about the J-series phones.
    User guides and a new admin guide. Plenty of reading - but I'm sure this will help demystify things too.

    Thanks again for the heads up,

     

    -john



  • 36.  Re: New J-Series Documentation

    Posted 07-19-2018 12:36 PM

    Utility server is what I'm using as well.  I uploaded firware for the K165 and I think filled up the hard drive on it and crashed it!  UGH!  Hopefully Avaya can fix it so I can try out 3.0.  FYI I found that the wireless card works in R2 but the bluetooth part (also a part of the wireless card) is only enabled in R3.



  • 37.  Re: New J-Series Documentation

    Posted 07-26-2018 01:53 PM

    Travis ---

    Confirmed by a few Avaya folks-


    In response to the lack of busy-indicators on the new j-series SIP phones.

    "I use Presence on my phones and can see the status (available/busy/away/do-not-disturb/out-of-office/offline) of others as well as advertise their presence. This actually provides a much higher granularity that the simple “on the phone” of Busy Indicator.  When you add a Contact to your personal contact list, looking at the Contact on your phone automatically shows there presence.  You can then assign those contacts to any buttons – including the JBM24 – to easily see their status"  --- hence, you need to run a presence server.

    To make something like a busy indicator function without a presence server - "team buttons" are programable (but apparently there are a lot of gotchas with team buttons).

    The rest of the buttons get programed like this. You add all the feature buttons you want to the phone. Then, you have two options to access them. 1. At the telephone, you press the menu button, then press the features button and this displays all of the features that you have programed on the telephone. 2. AT the phone itself - you scroll to an unused button, the label changes to "custom", then you press add and features, find the feature you want (thats already been programed and available in #1) and save it. You can do the same thing to move buttons too.

    All of this is ONLY for SIP, I haven't tried to configure the phone as h.323.

    I hope this helps,
    john-



  • 38.  Re: New J-Series Documentation

    Posted 07-27-2018 04:30 AM
      |   view attached

    The J169/J179 with SIP software is designed to be user-focused instead of admin-focused.  In admin-focused (which is still used if those phone are using H.323 software), the system administrator configures a phone with a number of call appearances and feature buttons and they have a fixed appearance on the screen of the phone for ALL users. In user-focused, the administrator still does the basic configuration but the END USER reconfigures the phone to display what works best for them.

    Have a look at the attached file. The default configuration of my J179 at work has three call appearances plus EC500 and DND and all five of those appear on the main screen. I very rarely use more than one call appearance and never use EC500/DND so I have four buttons taking up space on my primary screen that I rarely if ever use.

    What is important to ME is to have a quick access to the calendar app, quick access to a log-off button, and some quick-dial keys including seeing the presence of some of my contacts. So what I have done is reconfigured my J179 with that layout. When I change the layout, it automatically propogates to any other J169/J179 which is also logged in. If I use Guest Login to take over somebody else's J169/J179, then THAT phone temporarily reconfigures to my personal layout.

    Gord Webster - Product Manager IP Deskphones - Avaya

    Attachment(s)

    pdf
    J179_customized.pdf   187 KB 1 version


  • 39.  New J-Series Documentation

    COMMITTEE MEMBER
    Posted 07-27-2018 04:48 AM
    Gord,

    That thinking is fine, but right now there is a lack for administrators to remotely push some of these buttons out to users. 10% of my users will spend 5 minutes customizing their phones, where 90% of my users expect them to be setup by the administrator, the way they always have been. You can’t customize J-series phone buttons with SMGR 7.1.3 (you can on 9611 phones running SIP). While SMGR 8 is out, apparently you can’t actually order it yet.

    I think the things people are more concerned about is that the support for the button silently went away. We’ve been able to program busy indicators for at least the last 25 years, so for support to be dropped between firmware versions and no notes in the documentation wasn’t a great move. It trains customers who like to keep up to date to be in the mode of “what will go wrong when I upgrade that Avaya didn’t tell me about”, versus being excited about new features. It also makes customers wait as long as possible before upgrading firmware as well…

    -Nick



    From: Gord Webster <iaug-teud@lists.iaug.org>
    Sent: Friday, July 27, 2018 8:30 AM
    To: iaug-teud@lists.iaug.org
    Subject: [IAUG Forums] - RE: New J-Series Documentation


    The J169/J179 with SIP software is designed to be user-focused instead of admin-focused. In admin-focused (which is still used if those phone are using H.323 software), the system administrator configures a phone with a number of call appearances and feature buttons and they have a fixed appearance on the screen of the phone for ALL users. In user-focused, the administrator still does the basic configuration but the END USER reconfigures the phone to display what works best for them.

    Have a look at the attached file. The default configuration of my J179 at work has three call appearances plus EC500 and DND and all five of those appear on the main screen. I very rarely use more than one call appearance and never use EC500/DND so I have four buttons taking up space on my primary screen that I rarely if ever use.

    What is important to ME is to have a quick access to the calendar app, quick access to a log-off button, and some quick-dial keys including seeing the presence of some of my contacts. So what I have done is reconfigured my J179 with that layout. When I change the layout, it automatically propogates to any other J169/J179 which is also logged in. If I use Guest Login to take over somebody else's J169/J179, then THAT phone temporarily reconfigures to my personal layout.

    Gord Webster - Product Manager IP Deskphones - Avaya

    ________________________________
    Attachment Links: J179_customized.pdf (192 k) https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.iaug.org_p_fo_do_-3Fdownload-3D1-26fid-3D3177&d=DwMFaQ&c=nE__W8dFE-shTxStwXtp0A&r=TGgV8T8beElzBO3Kk2jzPQ&m=xRlnM7iGI2jQ1Tl72ZdKla2N1o86b3NWnwjR0KN1Yuo&s=aAB-9Hi6sYj7hu0VySztklnwTpwAoyK7z7dio1OGVCs&e=
    Site Links: View post online<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.iaug.org_p_fo_st_-3Fpost-3D156630-26anc-3Dp156630-23p156630&d=DwMFaQ&c=nE-----End Original Message-----www.iaug.org_p_fo_si_-3Ftopic-3D502&d=DwMFaQ&c=nE-----End Original Message-----www.iaug.org_p_us_to_&d=DwMFaQ&c=nE__W8dFE-shTxStwXtp0A&r=TGgV8T8beElzBO3Kk2jzPQ&m=xRlnM7iGI2jQ1Tl72ZdKla2N1o86b3NWnwjR0KN1Yuo&s=Ew9PHWDU2p0eCeSNiCrGX5OTRNToSm-nmp2Pi2Sgzs8&e=>

    This email has been sent to: nk@msu.edu<mailto:nk@msu.edu>

    Use of this email content is governed by the terms of service at:
    http://www.iaug.org/p/cm/ld/fid=2 https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.iaug.org_p_cm_ld_fid-3D2&d=DwMFaQ&c=nE__W8dFE-shTxStwXtp0A&r=TGgV8T8beElzBO3Kk2jzPQ&m=xRlnM7iGI2jQ1Tl72ZdKla2N1o86b3NWnwjR0KN1Yuo&s=8KfOQqxVj7dKOhjhOd-SJgL-XLJnZYV20jp1-I_d0uY&e=

    ________________________________


  • 40.  RE: New J-Series Documentation

    Posted 07-27-2018 10:42 AM

    Well said Nick - the same goes for me as far as customizing the phones.  The few J179's that I've put out so far, I put the buttons they need on the there myself - but I've had physical access to the phone.  Trying to show someone in a remote location, who doens't speak the same language as me is going to be a huge challenge.  I guess the only other option is to set the phone up, log it in at my desk, add the favorites manually and then give the user the extension.  What a pain.

    I guess I need to start looking at the H.323 software.


    In Reply to Nick Kwiatkowski:

    Gord,

    That thinking is fine, but right now there is a lack for administrators to remotely push some of these buttons out to users. 10% of my users will spend 5 minutes customizing their phones, where 90% of my users expect them to be setup by the administrator, the way they always have been. You can’t customize J-series phone buttons with SMGR 7.1.3 (you can on 9611 phones running SIP). While SMGR 8 is out, apparently you can’t actually order it yet.

    I think the things people are more concerned about is that the support for the button silently went away. We’ve been able to program busy indicators for at least the last 25 years, so for support to be dropped between firmware versions and no notes in the documentation wasn’t a great move. It trains customers who like to keep up to date to be in the mode of “what will go wrong when I upgrade that Avaya didn’t tell me about”, versus being excited about new features. It also makes customers wait as long as possible before upgrading firmware as well…

    -Nick




  • 41.  RE: New J-Series Documentation

    Posted 07-27-2018 10:50 AM

    oh-oh.... ummmmmmmmmmmm 323?.... 

    I've been trying to get the software loaded to the utility server - to the phone, for 2 days now.
    I have a service ticket open, we are trying to get this resolved. Still working on it.

    I'll keep you posted -

     

    john-


    In Reply to Travis Hill:

    Well said Nick - the same goes for me as far as customizing the phones.  The few J179's that I've put out so far, I put the buttons they need on the there myself - but I've had physical access to the phone.  Trying to show someone in a remote location, who doens't speak the same language as me is going to be a huge challenge.  I guess the only other option is to set the phone up, log it in at my desk, add the favorites manually and then give the user the extension.  What a pain.

    I guess I need to start looking at the H.323 software.


    In Reply to Nick Kwiatkowski:

    Gord,

    That thinking is fine, but right now there is a lack for administrators to remotely push some of these buttons out to users. 10% of my users will spend 5 minutes customizing their phones, where 90% of my users expect them to be setup by the administrator, the way they always have been. You can’t customize J-series phone buttons with SMGR 7.1.3 (you can on 9611 phones running SIP). While SMGR 8 is out, apparently you can’t actually order it yet.

    I think the things people are more concerned about is that the support for the button silently went away. We’ve been able to program busy indicators for at least the last 25 years, so for support to be dropped between firmware versions and no notes in the documentation wasn’t a great move. It trains customers who like to keep up to date to be in the mode of “what will go wrong when I upgrade that Avaya didn’t tell me about”, versus being excited about new features. It also makes customers wait as long as possible before upgrading firmware as well…

    -Nick




  • 42.  J-169/179 - H.323

    Posted 07-28-2018 11:21 AM

    Travis,

    After two days of working with Avaya, I was able to get a J-169 working as an H.323 phone.
    The phone works just like a 9608G. I logged in and it translated all of my existing button programing over without an issue. The busy-indicators work, programing buttons is normal.

    The current firmware installation process is broken. It take about about 5 or 6 manual hoops that you have to jump through to get the firmware loaded properly (CLI as sroot). Avaya is working to correct all of this and should release a new h.323 firmware version towards the middle to end of August.

    Monday morning, I will start using the 169 as my primary H.323 phone. I didn't get this resolved until end-of-day yesterady, but I didn't see any issues.

    SO - for now, I know that I can purchase the new J-series phones and if need be, use them as 323 phones. Then after my upgrade and after I get a presence server installed, I can flip the phones to SIP.

    I'll fire up a 179 monday too - and start working on the wif-fi card.

    If anyone is interested in running the phone in 323, just let me know and I'll post all of my notes and be available to answer any questions.

     

    john-



  • 43.  J-169/179 - H.323

    COMMITTEE MEMBER
    Posted 07-28-2018 06:13 PM
    John,


    Do you have any thoughts on presenting such a topic at the IAUG conference coming up in Austin? I'm sure you insight would be useful to the rest of the community!


    http://www.iaug.org/page/call-for-speakers


    -Nick


    ________________________________
    From: John Montoya <iaug-teud@lists.iaug.org>
    Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2018 3:20 PM
    To: iaug-teud@lists.iaug.org
    Subject: [IAUG Forums] - J-169/179 - H.323


    Travis,

    After two days of working with Avaya, I was able to get a J-169 working as an H.323 phone.
    The phone works just like a 9608G. I logged in and it translated all of my existing button programing over without an issue. The busy-indicators work, programing buttons is normal.

    The current firmware installation process is broken. It take about about 5 or 6 manual hoops that you have to jump through to get the firmware loaded properly (CLI as sroot). Avaya is working to correct all of this and should release a new h.323 firmware version towards the middle to end of August.

    Monday morning, I will start using the 169 as my primary H.323 phone. I didn't get this resolved until end-of-day yesterady, but I didn't see any issues.

    SO - for now, I know that I can purchase the new J-series phones and if need be, use them as 323 phones. Then after my upgrade and after I get a presence server installed, I can flip the phones to SIP.

    I'll fire up a 179 monday too - and start working on the wif-fi card.

    If anyone is interested in running the phone in 323, just let me know and I'll post all of my notes and be available to answer any questions.



    john-

    -----End Original Message-----


  • 44.  RE: J-169/179 - H.323

    Posted 07-30-2018 05:03 AM

    Thanks for the info John.  I think I will until the next release before persuing H.323 further.



  • 45.  RE: J-169/179 - H.323

    Posted 08-02-2018 07:23 AM

    Travis,

    I've been using the J-169 as my primary H.323 phone all week. I haven't had any issues, it's worked just fine.
    The ONLY thing that I've noticed about this end-point, is the sound on it.

     Speaker Phone: It is a noticably smaller and tinny sound. The person on the other side has no complaints, they say it sounds like a normal speaker phone. But on my end, it sounds like an AM handheld radio.

    Headset: I really had to turn everything down, on the phone and on the plantronics headset. Then slowly adjust until it was ok. It's still not where I want it. I think I'll have to start exploring the Auto Gain Control & Handset EQ settings. It's just a more senstive sound on the handset and headset.

    Base: The phone is smaller, just by an inch, but it does make a difference. I like it, takes up less real estate. 

    I don't see any reason not to use these endpoints as H.323 devices. Then I have to option to move them to SIP when I get this Presense server figured out.


    john-



  • 46.  RE: New J-Series Documentation

    Posted 07-27-2018 11:02 AM

     

    I have to second Nick on this. We have 11,000 phones and in our case, we do NOT want the end user to make changes to their phones. We need to be the ones to make the changes and push those to the phone and NOT have end users change them. We've been wanting to review the J series phones so we could deploy as H323 (which is what we have with our 1616 phones today) but then also give us a pathway to SIP. However, with the challenges I'm seeing here, the J series in SIP mode don't appear to be an ivenstment worth making without some significant updates.

    Is there a roadmap regarding the J series phones that explains what Avaya's plans are for this phone?

     



    In Reply to Nick Kwiatkowski:

    Gord,

    That thinking is fine, but right now there is a lack for administrators to remotely push some of these buttons out to users. 10% of my users will spend 5 minutes customizing their phones, where 90% of my users expect them to be setup by the administrator, the way they always have been. You can’t customize J-series phone buttons with SMGR 7.1.3 (you can on 9611 phones running SIP). While SMGR 8 is out, apparently you can’t actually order it yet.

    I think the things people are more concerned about is that the support for the button silently went away. We’ve been able to program busy indicators for at least the last 25 years, so for support to be dropped between firmware versions and no notes in the documentation wasn’t a great move. It trains customers who like to keep up to date to be in the mode of “what will go wrong when I upgrade that Avaya didn’t tell me about”, versus being excited about new features. It also makes customers wait as long as possible before upgrading firmware as well…

    -Nick




  • 47.  Re: New J-Series Documentation

    Posted 07-27-2018 09:49 AM

    Gord,

     

    Thank you for the great explanation. I think the major problem so far has been the release of this new telephone without documentation (not until the recent 3.0 firmware did user-docs come out) - and even these new docs fail to mention the concept in the first paragraph that you wrote below.

    This should be the title page on the website, the documents, everywhere.

    The new "user-focused" J-series phones...

    This will be a user culture change and a support culture change too. But at least we have a direction now.

     

    Thank you for your help,

    john-


    In Reply to Gord Webster:

    The J169/J179 with SIP software is designed to be user-focused instead of admin-focused.  In admin-focused (which is still used if those phone are using H.323 software), the system administrator configures a phone with a number of call appearances and feature buttons and they have a fixed appearance on the screen of the phone for ALL users. In user-focused, the administrator still does the basic configuration but the END USER reconfigures the phone to display what works best for them.

    Have a look at the attached file. The default configuration of my J179 at work has three call appearances plus EC500 and DND and all five of those appear on the main screen. I very rarely use more than one call appearance and never use EC500/DND so I have four buttons taking up space on my primary screen that I rarely if ever use.

    What is important to ME is to have a quick access to the calendar app, quick access to a log-off button, and some quick-dial keys including seeing the presence of some of my contacts. So what I have done is reconfigured my J179 with that layout. When I change the layout, it automatically propogates to any other J169/J179 which is also logged in. If I use Guest Login to take over somebody else's J169/J179, then THAT phone temporarily reconfigures to my personal layout.

    Gord Webster - Product Manager IP Deskphones - Avaya



  • 48.  New J-Series Documentation

    Posted 07-27-2018 10:42 AM
    Gord,
    This has been a very interesting and revealing thread to follow. Our
    primary use case for these phones is to address areas of our retail and
    office spaces that are under-served by data cabling by using the wireless
    module. Allowing the users to change their "stuff" may be useful for our
    office spaces, but in the retail space we expect the button layout of the
    phone to adhere to a standard layout. I need to be able to enforce that
    layout, so please reply with some information addressing this topic.

    This is very important to me. If I can't enforce the button layout, I'm
    trading one set of problems for another by adopting this phone to provide
    coverage where data cabling doesn't exist.

    I agree with Nick that our users expect our admins to configure their
    phones for them, for the most part. They want to sell stuff, not learn how
    to use a phone.

    On Fri, Jul 27, 2018 at 10:49 AM, John Montoya <iaug-teud@lists.iaug.org>
    wrote:

    > Gord,
    >
    >
    >
    > Thank you for the great explanation. I think the major problem so far has
    > been the release of this new telephone without documentation (not until the
    > recent 3.0 firmware did user-docs come out) - and even these new docs fail
    > to mention the concept in the first paragraph that you wrote below.
    >
    > This should be the title page on the website, the documents, everywhere.
    >
    > The new "*user-focused*" J-series phones...
    >
    > This will be a user culture change and a support culture change too. But
    > at least we have a direction now.
    >
    >
    >
    > Thank you for your help,
    >
    > john-
    >
    >
    > In Reply to Gord Webster:
    >
    > The J169/J179 with SIP software is designed to be user-focused instead of
    > admin-focused. In admin-focused (which is still used if those phone are
    > using H.323 software), the system administrator configures a phone with a
    > number of call appearances and feature buttons and they have a fixed
    > appearance on the screen of the phone for ALL users. In user-focused, the
    > administrator still does the basic configuration but the END USER
    > reconfigures the phone to display what works best for them.
    >
    > Have a look at the attached file. The default configuration of my J179 at
    > work has three call appearances plus EC500 and DND and all five of those
    > appear on the main screen. I very rarely use more than one call appearance
    > and never use EC500/DND so I have four buttons taking up space on my
    > primary screen that I rarely if ever use.
    >
    > What is important to ME is to have a quick access to the calendar app,
    > quick access to a log-off button, and some quick-dial keys including seeing
    > the presence of some of my contacts. So what I have done is reconfigured my
    > J179 with that layout. When I change the layout, it automatically
    > propogates to any other J169/J179 which is also logged in. If I use Guest
    > Login to take over somebody else's J169/J179, then THAT phone temporarily
    > reconfigures to my personal layout.
    >
    > Gord Webster - Product Manager IP Deskphones - Avaya
    >
    >
    > -----End Original Message-----
    >


  • 49.  Re: New J-Series Documentation

    Posted 07-27-2018 10:43 AM

    +1 to lack of documentation.  Lots of promises on what the phone will do, only to find out it's not until version X which hasn't been released yet.

    In Reply to John Montoya:

    Gord,

     

    Thank you for the great explanation. I think the major problem so far has been the release of this new telephone without documentation (not until the recent 3.0 firmware did user-docs come out) - and even these new docs fail to mention the concept in the first paragraph that you wrote below.

    This should be the title page on the website, the documents, everywhere.

    The new "user-focused" J-series phones...

    This will be a user culture change and a support culture change too. But at least we have a direction now.

     

    Thank you for your help,

    john-


    In Reply to Gord Webster:

    The J169/J179 with SIP software is designed to be user-focused instead of admin-focused.  In admin-focused (which is still used if those phone are using H.323 software), the system administrator configures a phone with a number of call appearances and feature buttons and they have a fixed appearance on the screen of the phone for ALL users. In user-focused, the administrator still does the basic configuration but the END USER reconfigures the phone to display what works best for them.

    Have a look at the attached file. The default configuration of my J179 at work has three call appearances plus EC500 and DND and all five of those appear on the main screen. I very rarely use more than one call appearance and never use EC500/DND so I have four buttons taking up space on my primary screen that I rarely if ever use.

    What is important to ME is to have a quick access to the calendar app, quick access to a log-off button, and some quick-dial keys including seeing the presence of some of my contacts. So what I have done is reconfigured my J179 with that layout. When I change the layout, it automatically propogates to any other J169/J179 which is also logged in. If I use Guest Login to take over somebody else's J169/J179, then THAT phone temporarily reconfigures to my personal layout.

    Gord Webster - Product Manager IP Deskphones - Avaya



  • 50.  RE: Avaya J179 - and J169

    Posted 06-29-2018 12:48 PM

    Feature buttons on the home screen is exactly why I started this thread - I can't figure out how to get them on there.  On firmware 1.5 it works by adding favorites in SM but after upgrading to 2.0 it doesn't work.  You can add the buttons to the home screen manually by selecting the favorite on the phone but I don't want to have to teach 2500 people in multiple languages how to do that, I want to build a template and have the buttons just be there.

    In Reply to John Montoya:

    Travis,

    I finally have some J-169 / J-179 phones available to test out.

    I have the J-169 registered and working. But now I have questions about buttons too. Coming from H.323 phones (9608s) - can you explain the difference in the types of screens / buttons?

    Home Screen- I have 8 programable buttons for the home screen. I can only get call appearence buttons to work on this screen. What other type of buttons can I program on this screen?

    Feature List screen - I scroll over one screen and now I can see a call-park button I programed.

    System Buttons screen - I scroll over one more time and now I see busy indictors.

    -then in the user profile admin screen (in system manager) - I see Favorite Buttons, what do I do with those?

    On the 9608 - there is "PHNSCRALL" in the 46x file, that specifies whether separate screens will be displayed for call appearances and features.  Is this not possible on the new SIP phones?

     

    Otherwise - definately different that the 9608 phones, small form factor. But a cleaner looking device.

     

    Thank you for your time and help,

     

    john-



  • 51.  RE: Avaya J179 - and J169

    Posted 06-29-2018 02:57 PM

    NOW - I'm paying attention!

    I've been messing with the phone for while and I'm with you now. Even with the ability to have users move their own buttons around, how long is it going to take us to teach them this process? - and then what happens on Monday after they have slept and we have re-teach them again, and again... --- smile

    I'll post again, if I figure out anything.

     

    thanks,

    -john



  • 52.  RE: Avaya J179 - and J169

    Posted 07-03-2018 05:26 AM

    I've been testing the wireless cards more and I'm getting lots of dropped audio from the far end.  It will drop for a good 10-40 seconds and then come back.  I'm not sure if it's something on my wireless network yet, still testing.



  • 53.  RE: Avaya J179 - and J169

    Posted 11 days ago

    This is an awesome thread, Thank you !!!
    We are running Rel 8 on CM, SM, and Session Manager.
    Due to a need for Local Survivable on a G450, without an LSP,
    our dealer recommended that we go with H.323 on our J179s.

    Was hoping to use the WiFi daughter board to provide Desk phones in Ethernet cable constrained areas,
    unfortunately it doesn't appear that there is a H.323 firmware that supports the J100/K100 Wireless Module.

    Has anyone heard if this is coming, or a deadend?
    I am not looking forward to trying to run a mixed SIP/H.323 environment, for the J179 phones.

    Any suggestions woudl be appreciated !!

    Cam



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    Cam McLaren
    Sr Telecom technician
    Fallsview Casino Resort
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