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Anyone using J159 and J189 SIP endpoints?

  • 1.  Anyone using J159 and J189 SIP endpoints?

    Posted 01-07-2021 04:33 PM

    Hi folks, I didn't realize there were new J-series endpoints. Or maybe I just wasn't familiar with them. Is anyone using the J159 or J189? It looks like they have an additional display on the bottom of the phoneset for feature keys, while the traditonal top display is for line appearances.

    I've been using the J179 and J139 for several months now and I like them both quite a bit. Do we know if there's anything appreciably different about these other models?

    Chip

    J159 - https://www.avaya.com/en/documents/fs-j159-ip-phone-dv15414en.pdf

    J189 - https://www.avaya.com/en/documents/fs-ip-phone-j189-dv15518en.pdf



  • 2.  RE: Anyone using J159 and J189 SIP endpoints?

    Posted 03-10-2021 05:03 PM

    Hey Chip -

    Sorry this response is a few months behind, but so many projects, so little time. We just got some J189s in for testing, we are really thinking these would be a better Call Center solution then the J179 appears to be, especially with that 2nd Display AND larger main display.

    With that said, in our Beta Testing, a lot of questions have come up with how does one exactly get buttons onto the 2nd display. Our first attempts failed, and we finally figured out how to manually put them on there but I don't want to have to walk 200 Call Center users (Who may or may not be technically savvy) on how to do this manually and I am hoping someone else here has figured out how to use SMGR to correctly place those buttons onto the 2nd display (We are running SMGR 8.1.3).

    The phone functions great, but we have just done some basic call scenarios. The J189 also has both USB A and USB C on the phone, and can be Wireless with the WiFi card inserted (We have not yet tested this). We have also undertook the branding of the displays on this phone, it's fairly easy to do, and with our PR Help we will have some nice display options (soon I hope).

    I have attached a photo of one of our test units.



    ------------------------------
    James Davis
    Voice and Data Senior Engineer
    University of Nebraska Medical Center
    Omaha NE
    ------------------------------



  • 3.  RE: Anyone using J159 and J189 SIP endpoints?

    Posted 03-10-2021 08:12 PM
    James,

    In theory, you should be able to go into SMGR, edit the station and manipulate the buttons on the screen.  Depending on the buttons, they will "stick" where they are shown in SMGR, and some buttons will want to be moved to other screens.

    What I've found to be more reliable is to make a phone the way you like it, and duplicate it (in the User Management section, not the CM section).  I've been very successful in setting up J159's (which have the same second-screen, and similar issues with button placements).

    I've also heard some success from people who export a station using the XML type, doing a search/replace for the station number and importing it back in.  I've not tried that myself.

    -Nick

    ------------------------------
    Nick Kwiatkowski
    Director of Design and Engineering
    Michigan State University
    East Lansing MI
    ------------------------------



  • 4.  RE: Anyone using J159 and J189 SIP endpoints?

    Posted 03-16-2021 05:19 PM
    Great info, thanks James and Nick!


  • 5.  RE: Anyone using J159 and J189 SIP endpoints?

    Posted 03-18-2021 01:28 PM
    James,

    In SMGR you program the second screen by adding a Button Module to the station and programming the features there. 

    Rick

    ------------------------------
    Rick Gibbons
    Telecommunications Manager
    Nelson Mullins
    Columbia SC
    ------------------------------



  • 6.  RE: Anyone using J159 and J189 SIP endpoints?

    Posted 03-18-2021 01:34 PM

    Hello Rick -

    Thanks for that info... that was also something our Business Partner told me a few days ago too (I just haven't tested it). I will have to test that and see if that helps... I guess it works either way (As I don't have a button mod provisioned, but had to manually move the buttons onto the screen.

    That just seems a bit counter intuitive (in my opinion), I would have never guessed it to be a Button Mod, but yet I see in their sales literature (Which I rarely read LOL) they say it "Acts" like the First Button Mod.

    https://www.avaya.com/en/documents/fs-ip-phone-j189-dv15518en.pdf

    Thanks for the reply,



    ------------------------------
    James Davis
    Voice and Data Senior Engineer
    University of Nebraska Medical Center
    Omaha NE
    ------------------------------



  • 7.  RE: Anyone using J159 and J189 SIP endpoints?

    Posted 03-19-2021 08:46 AM
    I'm having more issues with the buttons up top. I have features programmed on buttons 4-6 but those buttons almost seem to be blocked on the actual display and the features I have programmed get pushed to other buttons. It is odd that you have to turn the display to half width to be able to use all 10 of the buttons and the layout is wonky.

    ------------------------------
    Rick Gibbons
    Telecommunications Manager
    Nelson Mullins
    Columbia SC
    ------------------------------



  • 8.  RE: Anyone using J159 and J189 SIP endpoints?

    Posted 03-24-2021 02:07 PM
    So thank you Rick for pointing out the whole add those buttons on the 2nd button display as a Button Mod.

    That worked, however I think there might be a breakage in the Avaya software for these phones that may need to be addressed (I am posting it here first before making it a feature request and/or ticket to Avaya for maintenance).

    So in our testing, that suggestion only worked if the phone is Aliased as a J179, and not a J179CC. If you pick J179CC (For Call Center) for some reason it will not pull those buttons over to the 2nd display (Regardless of adding it as a 1st Button mod or not). So I want to verify, has any else had this experience, or could test it on their system as well?

    Also something else we have noticed and haven't really seen documented was, if the phone is provisioned as a J179CC the top two lines are unusable for buttons, they are reserved for the display space to display your login que and if you have VU Stats assigned. Found that interesting.

    ------------------------------
    James Davis
    Voice and Data Senior Engineer
    University of Nebraska Medical Center
    Omaha NE
    ------------------------------



  • 9.  RE: Anyone using J159 and J189 SIP endpoints?

    Posted 03-24-2021 02:13 PM
    James,

    I've been playing with our sets and have have been frustrated by some features show up and others don't. I found that when you tagged the feature button as a "Favorite" it would show up. I haven't tried it on a CC type phone but give it a shot before you create a ticket or feature request.

    ------------------------------
    Rick Gibbons
    Telecommunications Manager
    Nelson Mullins
    Columbia SC
    ------------------------------



  • 10.  RE: Anyone using J159 and J189 SIP endpoints?

    Posted 04-08-2021 11:15 AM

    OK just an update on this... So I raised a case with Avaya about why the J179CC phones can't follow the same rules as the J179 phones when it comes to selecting the Favorites buttons to stick on the display automatically. And their response was less then stellar "Working as Designed".  Here is the body of the message back:

    "Good Morning!

     

    After going through the documentation of Avaya J179/J169 CC, J100 button modules, J100 series IP phones, I can say that the button modules are only supported with J179, J169, and J189 IP phones but not the CC type sets.

     

    You can find the same information on page 16 of the J100 IP phones documentations: https://downloads.avaya.com/css/P8/documents/101053967

     

    So the scenario you're experiencing is working as designed and please feel free to reach out if you have any queries or require any further information. Happy to help!"

    So I will be putting a Feature Request Submit ion and hopefully we can get Avaya to include this in later releases.

    Thanks for all the input on this from the community! 



    ------------------------------
    James Davis
    Voice and Data Senior Engineer
    University of Nebraska Medical Center
    Omaha NE
    ------------------------------



  • 11.  RE: Anyone using J159 and J189 SIP endpoints?

    Posted 04-08-2021 01:18 PM
    Definitely put in a feature request on this, James...if you haven't already. Also, we have single sign-on working now, so your IAUG.org login will take you directly to the feature request site and let you post as yourself, without you having to have a separate Canny login. So once you post your FR, copy the link and have your friends and neighbors upvote it...haha!


  • 12.  RE: Anyone using J159 and J189 SIP endpoints?

    Posted 04-08-2021 05:54 PM

    Hey Chip -

    I added that this morning, but later this afternoon I made some discoveries that has altered my mindset a bit, but there are STILL Huge knowledge holes in how this J Series phone works in SIP mode. I had to go back and alter my feature request to address another pain, but as for the Feature Buttons showing up on Button Mods of CC phones, that seems to be cleared.

    So in our lab we thought we were running the latest firmware, but I found out that we weren't so I updated it. At which point the J189s and J179s running as CC seemed to follow what I have programmed as button mod, and selected as favorites. So that SEEMS to be resolved, but it uncovered a few things. The key take away for button mods and assigning features other then Call Appr and Bridge Appr, you better select Favorite tick box or it will not show up.

    One is an annoyance factor - Why does Avaya J Series SIP phones have to be different on how their button placements are when in Half Screen mode? Here is an example:

    If the phone is an H.323 phone, the buttons in CM go from Left to Right, and they go 1-4 on the Left and 5-8 on the right, and repeat this pattern all the way down.

    If the phone is a J Series SIP phone (I have never played with other SIP phones before so I can't speak for them), it's different in CM, going Left to Right, they are staggered Odd vs Even, 1, 3, 5, 7 on the Left and 2, 4, 6, 8 on the right. TOTALLY screws my mind up.

    Something else we discovered that is blowing my mind, so the JEM24 Button Mod, in SMGR has 24 buttons you can program (Remember though if it's SIP it's staggered the same way, Left is Odd and Right is Even). BUT it has a scroll bar on the bottom that presents MORE buttons, but you can't program into them from SMGR, BUT you can assign buttons to them from the phone. I am really confused now, as to why Avaya feels this is the way it should work.

    Why do I have 48 more buttons I can't really assign anything too, but yet an end user can add buttons to it?



    ------------------------------
    James Davis
    Voice and Data Senior Engineer
    University of Nebraska Medical Center
    Omaha NE
    ------------------------------



  • 13.  RE: Anyone using J159 and J189 SIP endpoints?

    Posted 04-08-2021 06:41 PM
    So, it's best not to compare how phones used to work in the H.323 days vs. the SIP stack.  They are completely, absolutely different, built on different stacks and different technologies.  That includes the J-Series phones and the 96xx SIP phones.

    Remember, the H.323 protocol was a quick port of the old Digital (DCP) protocol...  SIP phones took a 'modern' approach on how they approach things like button assignments, features, etc.

    When you program buttons on a SIP phone in CM, CM will communicate the list of features available to the System Manager, which in turn sends it to Session Manager.  It is literally a list of features and is often not even sent in the order that you programmed them. Remember, the phone does not actually talk to CM, it only talks to ASM.

    As long as you have a modern version of SMGR, you can take those list of features and place them in certain locations on the phone.  You will need to edit the user -> CM Profile -> edit features and then you can place the features more specifically.  If you want features to show up on the front page, you will need to mark them as favorites (the front page is reserved for line appearances only).  Don't use busy indicators, as they've pretty much been replaced by Contacts (which are a lot more powerful).

    The end user has the ability to move buttons around to pretty much any location on their own (unlike a DCP or H.323 phone).  They can also re-label any button on their phone too (the info is retained across devices too!).   We often see users stick their own contacts on the front page and a mix of features we have on other pages.  Other features are also available, even if they aren't programmed on the set, including screen savers.  Settings like custom ringtones, backgrounds and screen settings can also be customized as well.

    All this is communicated between the phone and ASM via the PPM protocol.  Essentially, the phone will send HTTP(s) requests to the ASM server which then will store this data.  They can be instigated to push or pull data using SIP PUBLISH messages between the devices.  

    I won't get into the argument of if it is better or worse than the old H.323 functions -- but it is different.  And compatibility between CM, ASM, SMGR and the Phone firmware is something you will need to keep an eye on, because if you are not feature compatible between on of the things in your stack you will see unpredictable results like you did with the CC features.

    ------------------------------
    Nick Kwiatkowski
    Director of Design and Engineering
    Michigan State University
    East Lansing MI
    ------------------------------



  • 14.  RE: Anyone using J159 and J189 SIP endpoints?

    Posted 04-09-2021 12:07 PM
    What a great discussion...thank you both!